Switch to Browse mode (on the toolbar up top) to edit.
We are studying (Ba, Ra, Alif) today. ب ر أ
salaam all 🙂 ok so is there a link between “creatures” bariyati and being innocent/free/disassociated? 98:6 and 4:112 for example
I think 59:24 is a good place to look. It has a little bit of a different meaning from the others according to the rendered translations. In the verse, we have creator and inventor. So we know “creator” can’t work for both khaliqu and bariyu. are these 3 synonyms in 59:24? l-muṣawiru too
I wish Farouk was here. He was giving me some hints about 12:53.
I’m just plain confused. Jannah please let us know how we can help, we are only thinking out loud here, just join in 🙂
Ok. That is fine. have you clicked the link to the root on corpus? aboveYep, thanks. cool, then you can click the individual verses and compare them
i don’t think 59:24 can be synonyms, based on 59:23 cos that is a long list and i doubt they are all synonyms too… ? you would expect them to all be synonyms or not (not one list of non-synonyms and one list of synonyms) if that makes sense. No, I don’t believe in true synonyms. Similar words maybe, but slightly different meanings at least. I think I agree with Marisa here. All words have slightly different meanings I find. Also, this verse is talking about the various attributes of God, so variety is more important than similarity in this sense.Verse 59:24? Yes. “For him are the names beautiful.”
Sorry. I’ll be with you in a few minutes. OK Imraan! 🙂We can wait for you. 🙂 No need to wait
God said to Jesus “(watub’ri-u) the blind” in 5:110.i have been looking at 57:22
I really think it has to do with cause, being responsible for a cause, removing a cause, etc. Like when I write an article and publish it and people take from my writing and start acting upon the views I have expressed in it. I am responsible for what caused their behavior.So we would be responsible for our own actions? I’m not sure I follow. I pulled the trigger.
i think in 57:22 there is a clue word “fātakum”
i could be wrong but it seem like the word that we are studying has to do with having barriers that either confine or exclude or exempt and the fatakum seems to be about a barrier that lets things get thru… it’s just what came to me and i haven’t checked it or cross reffedThat could be relating to “disassociated”.
In 59:24, خَالِقُ has to do with determining the measure, بَارِئُ has to do with removing obstacles and مُصَوِّرُ has to do with getting things to incline to each other. These are different stages within the creative process. determining the measure, removing that which stands in the way and getting what is necessary to work together for success of the process.
Sounds right Imraan – the process for developing oneself and the society – cool economy of words.
Yes Yasin, I think that the root basically has to do with removal of something.
In 57:22, it is not so much about bringing it into existence, but rather the removal of that which brings about the disaster. Or rather the removal of that which prevented the disaster from coming about.
A bit like having a filter on one’s information. You place up a barrier, then in a measured way you let information in, consider it and keep going. A bit like a personal firewal…
That’s an interesting thought.Agreed.
Comes back to responsibility. You are responsible for what u see, hear and intuit…. so when you control the flow of information – in a way you choose to put up an obstacle to the nonsense – but you also allow yourself to see/hear/intuit ALL that you can and then filter it. So when we see acts of oppression being carried out, we can choose to bounce it off our firewall or let it in and in a considered way formulate a response… but you need the ‘thought process’ behind it to consider it too… hence the program of life…of peace, of submission. That could also be negative too as you could choose to ignore certain things. I’ve certainly done it. True, hence the considered aspect. If you try to align yourself with the straight path to success – you are programming your responses in a certain way – so some people become predictable.
For example, went shopping yesterday. Lady gave me too much change, i weighed up taking the money, then the bad feeling kicked in (happened in a split second, i can think fast) and I gave the money back – she would have had that money taken out of her paycheck… but again that behaviour is learned… so we filter…emotions feed off the knowledge, and can control that kind of behaviour to make it automatic. I know that I wouldnt have taken the money – but I considered taking it, weighed up the options and gave it back… That is true. I would feel pretty bad taking the extra money, and that is certainly a learned behavour since not everybody would feel the same about it.
OMG you are stirring up things in my head 🙂 This is related to psychology. Stimuli! Discriminative stimuli, learned behavior, etc. EXACTLY! Stimuli (external) feed in through the filter… act behind it sort of – and control the permeability of it. This is my interest in anthropology kicking in, but wouldn’t different groups of people have different reactions? Exactly. That’s why the quran takes an evolutionary stance to things. There are different ways to handle different circumstances. as such, there may be times when certain verses are not relevant in certain circumstances. But this does not mean that they no longer have any purpose, just that an individual or community at a certain stage of their evolutionary development don’t require it. Any other individual or community at a different stage of evolutuonary devlopment will always have access to it should the y require it. I guess that would be partially why not many people follow the Old Testament anymore, it’s no longer relevant.
I would say that the Quranic message is universal – i.e. it applies to all people at all times, whatever the circumstance. The reason why there is SO much freedom. We overlook this freedom aspect. There is no shariah law – we are free to govern ourselves provided we dont transgress the basic rules given within AQ. Road traffic rules arent present in teh Quran – but necessary to follow – for ones safety… The thing about verse being relevant at one time and irrelevant at another time really should be rephrased – the relevance is for all time and all people, its back to incorporating the whole thing.
That’s the thing though, the quran had to be revealed because the older scriptures were no longer relevant. I disagree – its not that they were irrelvantjust that people didnt get the whole picture… like some sunnis dont get the whole picture because some dude is doing the interpretation for them – so they dont get to setup their own filters.. its ‘prefiltered’
I don’t believe in older scriptures. 😛 lol I don’t either, the quran is what we need to follow.
I’m not so sure about the rephrasing because there certainly seems to be instances when one verse would apply and another wouldn’t. I found that i had to be honest with myself in admitting this.theres one ‘doctrine’ i hate above others – and that is of abrogation – I just read it like that bro… my own prejudices… someone I spoke to some time ago brought up the relevance issue to discuss abrogation – didnt like it when I said he was taking the michael. I have talked to so many non-muslims and they strongly believe in the abrogation theory. These are the people who believe the quran instructs violence against non-believers though.
Yasin, this is a common misconception. The issue of relevance does not automatically lead to the concept of abrogation. Naskh cannot mean cancel on one hand and preserve on the other. It’s about succession. Even though a verse is irrelevant under certain circumstances, it doesn’t mean they can’t be relevant if circumstances dictate it again. So there is no abrogation, only succession which allows individuals or communities to find their way to the right destination regardless of their current condition.agreed. Well said. 🙂
I had a student who i was coaching at cricket. He was exceptional even at the age of 4 and loved the game and progressed very well with the coaching program. Once he was ready to move on and play in a social league, they tried to take him back to basics that I had covered a long time before and he was way beyond that. they were stuck to their manual and therefore couldn’t deal with him. The quran is not so static a document.
i agree, not static If it were static I’m sure we would all be living like 7th desert arabs right now. say that to the hoardes of sunnis in saudi… True, true, but they follow ahadith. That’s different…theyve shackled the quran to 7th century interpretations, opinions and superstitions…not just in that sense, but also in the now, there are different conditions that exist all at the same time.
Are you saying that the root is about putting up a filtering mechanism?
In a way – its one piece of the pie. mmm pie.cherry…
Apple is the best. cherry fo sho.
escape comes up in 9:2 aswell
is that a coincidence? see 57:22 fatakum that is translated as escape as well so that is 2 verses so far where BRA comes up with something about escaping – i think there is something here some kind of clue. I have to go now, night night salaam 🙂 thx for the invitation 🙂i was going to say that in 57:22, i think that which is removed in order for the disaster to take place is the Ghafar of God mentioned in57:21.
Salaam salaam. Salaam, have a good night. wsalaam, Asfora! Goodnight!
Im staring into the eyes of a beautiful woman – now would you want to be B-R-A of a thing like that? (And no, my computer is not a beautiful woman) – not THAT much of a geek.lol.
So, who is Jannah? Please introduce yourself to me… i dont know who you are… Really? I figured that maybe we would have met in one of the FB groups, guess not. dunno… lol well there’s not really much to say except that I live in Canada.cool. im in BIRMINGHAM – thats UK, not that fake one in Alabama. Hey 😦They stole the name of our beautiful city. lol. Am I the only Canadian here? 😦well M is the only American here… and we are typing with each other now… Well at least I have people online to talk to. I’m in a small town surrounded by nothing but christians. That sounds familiar. The worst part for me is that people might assume I’m a traditionalist if I say I am “muslim”. Yea that’s the problem. When people ask I usually just say I’m agnostic just to avoid arguments. Most people I know still think islam allows wife beating and such, argh… I wore a scarf wrapped around my head one day last winter because it was cold. I’ll never live it down. Yea I don’t even wear a headscarf. I don’t really believe it’s required anyway as long as we dress modestly. I agree with that. Sometimes I would, but just don’t want to get stares. I like the look. you should see her beautiful eyes… do you have pretty eyes?Poor thing. CHristians aint so boad…
I’m moving to Canada soon. Wife and 2 kids already there. Hope hook up with you some time once i’m there Jannah.Insha’Allah Imraan you will be in Jannah!!! not the person – the place… lol I get that alot. People are like “I wanna be in jannah!” I’m like “what? Me or the place?”It was too good to resist, sorry!i’m looking for jannah here (not the person, the state) no offence Jannah.
Jannah on earth is the goal of all goals.
Peace peoples I got to go, keep happy y’all… God bless u all.
Peace, love and granola to keep you regular as you grow old bro. LOL! peace Ok, goodnight. Salam.
Marisa, I’m thinking of carrying on with the basic Arabic classes I conduct here in SA once I’m in Canada. I need to learn arabic.whoops
I guess we’ll wrap this up unless anybody has anything else to add. I don’t think so. It was an excellent discussion though.
do you think twiddla could work for conducting it online? For what? Teaching arabic? If so I’m defintely interested in learning. yes, would it work as a classroom, marisa? I think she left. i guses so. will let you know if i start online classes, jannah. if i remember correctly, you said you weren’t far from vancouver. I’m still quite far, about 6 hours. are you in bc?Yes. interior or up north probably. Interior, Okanagan/Shuswap area.Ok, then i guess the online option would be for you as well. will let you know.
gotta go. peace out Bye bye. Bye. I should be going too.
I found a good link for learning Arabic. It’s a little slow but good! They are Canadian too. http://www.lqtoronto.com/videos.html